Quote of the Day

[imhilien]

"Whatever decieves may be said to enchant" - Plato (The Republic)

Yes, the Exiles / Milieu books are certainly full of enchanting deceivers *cough* Marc *cough* and those who are enchanted enough to follow them anywhere, even over the metaphorical cliff to their doom...

Comments

[misura]

... I sort of viewed Marc more as someone with a ton of charisma (backed up by high level Persuasion*) than a deceiver, as such? He kind of feels too arrogant to bother with deception: clearly, he's right about everything at all times, and if anyone disagrees, they're just idiots/short-sighted/tricked/afraid/family/other.

Aiken, on the other hand ...


* Iffy on the term, as I originally read these books in translation, and I don't have them near to check. But: the ability to force other people to do what you want.

[imhilien]

Marc definitely had lots of charisma, yes. There's a bit in 'Adversary' where some of the rebels talk about how they literally stopped thinking for themselves when they were with him. Brr.

But I remember when Aiken found out that the metaconcert program that Marc had given him was secretly designed to kill him. Also, when Marc confessed to Rogi that he deliberately hadn't told his rebels all of his plans about Mental Man, otherwise they wouldn't have followed him. So I think he was quick to deceive if it furthered his own plans.

Aiken though is pure Trickster. :D

[misura]

Ooh, the 'did I mention that this will also kill you?' thing had 100% slipped my mind, I confess - though I might feebly argue that since Aiken found out about it, the deception somewhat lacked enchantment. ;)

My inner cynic sort of read that passage in 'Adversary' as a kind of justification after the fact: they lost, and saying 'it wasn't my fault, I'm a good person, but I just wasn't myself' sounds better than saying 'oops, so I made some massive errors in judgment'.

(I read 'Jack the Bodiless' about a dozen times at an impressionable age and developped a massive crush on Marc, so I freely admit that there may be some bias in play here. I was a lot less impressionable by the time I read Exiles, though Aiken still charmed me thoroughly. I didn't read 'Magnificat' until another five years or so after that. Looking at the publication dates, I can only assume the books were translated out of order, or else my library had a slightly weird book-buying policy.)

[imhilien]

Yes, it's possible that the rebels used Marc's coercion powers as an excuse, 'he made me do it and with those grey eyes too!'.

After 'Magnificat' was published, I started reading 'Many Coloured Land', thought 'wow' and binge-read the rest. Was amazed that Villian!Marc wanted to repent and headed off into the sunset with the heroine. So I've had a soft spot for him ever since, but still give him the side-eye sometimes. :)

I've replaced my copy of 'Jack the Bodiless' at least once...

[misura]

The advantage of library books (in my country, at least): they get made extra sturdy, and next-to-impervious to wear. ;) (Of course, I do have my own copy by now, though 'Diamond Mask' is an ex-library one.)

I sometimes feel that the reveal of Marc being Unifex has spoilt me for all other surprise! identity reveals. I mean, there were clues, but I never put them together. From Abaddon to Friendly Family Ghost ...

[imhilien]

I was surprised at Marc being Unifex too, as I remember that U had told Rogi he had watched Marc grow up. So that meant they were two separate people, right? Whoops.

The Denis as Fury reveal was a bigger shock to me... I almost dropped the book.

[misura]

I wonder how often he was tempted to tell his younger self (not) to do something - I think we did get a 'well, if we're talking millions of years, the time-travel paradox isn't a problem' sort of explanation for the time-space continuum not blowing up, but ... just a little nudge here and there might not have mattered?

I binge-read a fair number of mystery novels at the time before the Fury reveal, so the moment Dorothea came up with her lists, just the tiniest part of me started to suspect that maybe? (The culprit is always the least expected person! Which would have actually been Rogi, I guess, but I didn't think the author would go that far.)

[imhilien]

I bet Unifex was tempted a few times to tell his younger self to get therapy. "And bring your family along, too."

I had thought Fury was Victor in a new, horrible form and not dead after all. He was jealous of Denis - so why not start killing off his family members too. :(

[misura]

A Remillard family therapy session sounds like a crackfic waiting to happen!

My early speculation for Fury was Mathieu (sp?) - surely that off-hand mention of Marc almost having had a twin brother whom he strangled in the womb must have meant something? (But nope.) Victor's ghost seemed a good candidate, too; if we can have aliens and psi-powers, why not ghosts?

[imhilien]

A Remillard therapy session does have a lot of crackfic potential, yes. I mean, the first person who says to Marc, 'tell me about your father' would be squished. :-p

Marc strangling Mathieu in the womb because Mathieu was trying to kill him - ow. No wonder Marc had trust issues.

I've written other posts here of how Exiles!Marc passed into legend as various winter deities (i.e. Grandfather Frost), but this reminds me of another possible association - demigod Heracles, who strangled a snake in his cradle when he was a baby. Later on, he did all these labours as penance with Athena (Elizabeth) helping him out.

[misura]

I think Heracles also took on the Hydra? (We-ell, not quite what Marc did, but then, Marc's Hydra also didn't regrow heads so.)

'I strangled a snake as a baby' sure sounds better than 'I killed my twin brother as an unborn child'.

[zahri]

Jumping in here from the future, but the Marc-as-Unifex reveal remains one of my favourites of all time, simply because it is SO GOOD whichever angle you come to it from. Every bit of context you have just blows your mind in a different way. It's such a clever reveal to hinge a looped series on.

Because the impression you have of Marc if you start with Saga of the Exiles and the impression you have if you start with Jack the Bodiless are two VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS yet they work together so well, and are still mindblowing to think about him being Unifex. And gosh, Jack and Intervention are very different books when you realise that it's just Marc gleefully pulling his OWN STRINGS and is so dependent on Rogi to get stuff done because (a) Fury and (b) he's working with the relative he's closest to and probably loves best. Gotta make sure to manipulate everyone necessary into being born, while still not ruining his uncle's life. (Rogi would like to protest the life-ruining bit, except he loves all of his particularly rebellious nephews, grand-nephews and great-grand-nephews. They come in the bookshop going I Do Not Understand Humanity and Let Me Tell You How Things Could Be Improved and he melts again)

I mean, I managed to read the series out of order, given I was relying on library books, so I think I went Jack, Diamond, Intervention, Magnificat, Saga of the Exiles? So basically I had the Denis and the Marc reveals back to back, and Marc was an even bigger WHAAAAAAAT.

(The Denis reveal is ALSO good. Julian just loved using that final line cliffhanger, didn't she?)

[misura]

Jack and Intervention are very different books when you realise that it's just Marc gleefully pulling his OWN STRINGS and is so dependent on Rogi to get stuff done because (a) Fury and (b) he's working with the relative he's closest to and probably loves best.

Ha, yes! Though now you have me wondering who else Marc might have chosen to 'haunt'. But that scene in Jack where Marc is considering which spaceship to steal, and then Unifex walks up to him and tells him exactly what he was thinking, which leads to Marc getting more than a bit freaked out ... yesss. So much glee after the reveal.

I'll confess the final line cliffhangers have grown on me, but I'm sure I've also really, really hated them at some point, because how long until I can get the next book? (That's too long!)

[zahri]

Yeah, the list of possibles is pretty short.

Denis perhaps, but of course Marc has never trusted him since Fury scared him as a toddler. Lucille definitely. Maybe Phillip and/or Maurice? (They somehow managed to avoid most of the family chaos despite everything. Phillip even managed to not have a Hydra-child) Or Anne, though Anne was always another major suspect.

Yes, the Unifex-scares-Marc scene at the spaceport is PERFECT. The creepy Lylmik can read you through your paramount shields, Marc! (No he probably can’t, but he DOES remember what you’re planning)

And then Marc’s complaining about how the Lylmik are NOTHING like their rep to his college-mates/Alex when he gets back to Earth...